On October 20th, 2005 I had a meeting with Dave Karp, the Vice-President and Chief Operating Officer of Hawaiian Vacations.
He emailed me when he found out about the website. Apparently he was in Japan or someplace and came back to some unpleasantness.
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Kurt,
Obviously I am concerned about the content your website, hawaiianvacationssucks.com. Please give me a call at your convenience so we can discuss your situation. I think perhaps a face to face meeting is in order.
Regards,
Dave Karp
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I was interested in the wording. "Content of your website" and not "your experience with Hawaiian Vacations."
I went over to their offices and was greeted by a Hawaiian-shirt clad Dave and we started discussing the situation. The situation being my tickets and the website and the awful effect it had on morale at Hawaiian Vacations.
There were two inaccuracies in my original website that I was made aware of by Mr. Karp.
(I was lucky to meet with him. He’s often out of town. He goes to Japan and elsewhere or sometimes he’s got a meeting at the ACVB and has to cut your meeting short - just like today. That’s understandable, he’s a very busy and important man.)
I was refunded the inter-island fare for some reason back in January I guess, (further leading me to think that the main tickets were more flexible or refundable) so the total retail amount that I won't be getting back from Hawaiian Vacations or when I try to pawn my tickets is around $1,600, not $2300. He told me that the reservationists at Hawaiian Vacations who perused my website thought I was trying to gouge for money.
I'll give you a minute to enjoy that irony.
The other inaccurate point was clarified on their internal communication. Notes that were taken by the reservation lady in January when I called to cancel our trip say that she DID tell me that the tickets needed to be, how was it put . . . rebooked? used? by the end of 2005. At least that was what was printed on their internal communication box on whatever the piece of paper was that he showed me.
I certainly don't remember someone saying I was going to lose the tickets, in fact I remember something quite other. Too bad I was going through the worst time in my life or I would have picked up on the exact wording. I promise that the next time an immediate family member dies I'll try to take better notes for whatever company I will be dealing with in the aftermath.
I have revised this website to reflect the notes taken by their crack personnel.
I think there was some other information about rebooking and cancellation costs on the paper he showed me, but I didn’t take it. It wasn't offered to me and it wasn't something that I was emailed. It was all "internal communication." I don’t really think anything on there was why there is a problem now. I’m now vividly aware of their policies.
Interestingly, there was no record of me asking in April about rebooking for next March, because there WAS no rebooking. The dates weren't up on the website, which is why I called instead. I was told to call later to reserve the flights. That is when I asked about the status of the tickets and what the rebooking fees were. Whoever spoke to me was looking at my info. Karp told me he wishes he knew who it was. I’ll bet he does.
Here are some other things I was told during our meeting.
- One time someone picketed them but it turned out to not be Hawaiian Vacation’s fault.
- He was so pissed when he saw this website that he considered putting up a website called kurtriemannsucksevenmore.com. (Yes, he actually said that to me.)
- Even if I had written him personally with he text that eventually ended up in the website, he would have been pissed off.
- Everyone over there is nice.
- Every year they give away dozens and dozens of tickets to other people. (I wasn't asking for anything for free, but thanks for telling me what I can't have, Dave.)
- I’m not getting my reservations changed by anyone who works in the reservations area. (I already knew that. That's why I'm writing this.)
- They were right about their policy and laid it out to me in January. (I differ on the interpretation of what I was told.)
- The last woman I talked to about my problem was “very compassionate.” You know - the woman who did nothing to help, nor give me Karp's name.
- I really upset everyone at Hawaiian Vacations.
- I should have gone to him first. (Maybe someone should have told him about me, instead.)
- Now it’s too late, the damage is done.
- None of the revervationists want to have anything to do with me.
- If his employees find out he’s helping, he’ll have a mutiny on his hands.
- Dave would try to help sell my tickets.
- Here is his exact quote - "I'll help you sell the tickets."
So I was essentially told by the C.O.O. of Hawaiian Vacations that I could no longer expect help from his company, (as if I was getting help before?) but as a sort of favor to me (because he has an "in" with those who may want tickets) he'd help me sell them.
The tenor of the entire conversation basically gave me the feeling that he wanted me to think that everything that's happened is all my fault.
There was more, but I think you get the idea.
I left the meeting and related the results to a lot of stunned and shocked people.
I took down the website that day as a gesture of good faith. After all, he was going to deal with the tickets. . . He never asked me to take the site down.
When I was going over to the meeting, seven people individually told me that they were positive that Hawaiian Vacations would “do the right thing”
All seven were appalled that I was told what I was told during our meeting. Most egregious was the fact that I should feel guilty for making them feel bad about what happened to me.
Here’s a bulletin - I am more sad than angry about this entire episode. And you can see how angry I am.
I don't see how anything in their policy or anything I had assumed was or was not told to me could have possibly kept the last two "reservation specialists" from turning me over to someone with the ability to listen and with the authority to do something. It was NEVER presented as an option. "You have to travel by January." "I've worked here five years and I've never seen her change those dates." Those words are why they got the website. At least I posted my name as the final authority on it; if you have a problem, here's my number.
So I registered my complaint via an essentially a private website which they could read about my experience, and what happens? Did anyone acknowledge that I was backed into a corner, unable to speak to anyone with authority about losing the last gift from my dead parents?
No.
And so far, nobody, not Karp, not one of the reservationists who denied rebooking, has ever acknowledged that this was the last gift from my parents and perhaps should be treated with a little more dignity, despite my telling the last three people over there that the tickets were of that nature.
Is everybody is just looking for a way out or covering their own asses? Karp doesn't want to piss off his employees, all of whom became mutually hysterical at the website, pointing out the two innocent inaccuracies. He said he's not sure how to make a "win / win" out of this. God knows, changing my travel dates would mean that they "lost" and I "won". Apparently there is nothing worse in a customer-service business than letting the customer "win" or "get what they reasonably expect because it was paid for under dire circumstances".
I'm certain that they think I'm a grieving crackpot and therefore that is a complete explanation for my behavior. They probably also think that I'm doing everything in my power to drag this out and that there is just no satisfying me. I do know that I'm not very welcome at Hawaiian Vacations after getting so much attention. Karp actually told me that.
Well, it's too bad they're uncomfortable. It's too bad they got so unbelievably upset at my story. It's too bad someone's feelings got hurt. I'm sorry that the last supervisor I spoke to lost her Mom in April and I told her that I was sorry and offered my condolences - right before she told me that I had to sell my tickets or lose them.
Hmmm. You'd think she'd get it. She told her boss that she was very empathetic when I was there. It seems that if that was true then the results of my visit would have been substantially different. Perhaps I'd have reservations in March to Hawaii? I guess the Hawaiian Vacations definition of "empathy" varies somewhat from mine.
Here is the entire problem in one sentence –
“Hawaiian Vacations’ policy is forcing me to sell (at a loss) the last gift my dying parents gave me - three paid tickets to Hawaii to scatter their ashes off the coast of Maui.”
Here is the second part of the problem –
“Nobody at Hawaiian Vacations ever attempted to address or find someone to solve the scheduling problem, despite being told repeatedly that there was a problem and that I honestly felt that I had been misinformed about the tickets."
That has been the entire issue from day one. But they don’t get it. They never will get it. Everyone else seems to see that employees and management at Hawaiian Vacations are so concerned about covering their asses both fiscally and personally that the situation has blossomed into a crisis.
Dave Karp told me that he's never lost a parent, "although the time is coming." I’ve noticed in the last year that there are two kinds of people – those who are sympathetic to your situation, and those who use your situation to talk about themselves. Maybe that's why he doesn't get it either and why they have no "death in the family" clause buried in their contract, or are unwilling to insert it. Perhaps that's why I've been having to relive the minutiae of the last year every time I try to get them to do the right thing or whenever I have to write about the problem.
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THE RIGHT THING
Maybe Hawaiian Vacations doesn’t know what the “Right Thing” is.
What would have been "The Right Thing?"
- Well, I don't think it's necessary from everyone, but "I'm sorry for your loss" is nice. It doesn’t bind anyone to a contract and can actually make someone feel better during some very bad times. But it's not a requirement at all.
- "Not a problem. We'll change your reservations." It's three tickets to Honolulu from Anchorage. People are calling them every ten minutes. They can sell the seats. Guess what? SENDING PEOPLE TO HAWAII IS ALL THEY DO.
- "What dates will you be traveling?" That one is easy.
- "We'll email you a confirmation." And it's done.
- Maybe an email thanking me for my patience - something not generated by a machine.
And that would have been that. And I wouldn't be wasting all my time on this ridiculous problem.
What else could they have done? They could have exchanged my travel vouchers with someone who was traveling within a month or four of purchasing their tickets. It’s something I certainly tried. I’m afraid I don’t have the advertising firepower of Hawaiian Vacations. I had to talk to everyone I knew and even tried to give a ticket as a gift to a dear friend (they couldn’t afford to rent a place down there). Nothing doing. That was a lot of wasted time.
I spent a hundred dollars on an ad in the Daily News to see if anyone could buy the tickets. I had several crazy people call and another couple who just finally realized they couldn’t travel on such short notice. Even more wasted time having to deal with this. I can’t afford to spend more time and money trying to sell off my dead Mother’s gift to the highest bidder. Just as I predicted, it was time-consuming and painful.
Hawaiian Vacations has been given five opportunities to do the right thing. I have given them more than enough chances to do what’s right. I have never dealt with a more unsympathetic and dysfunctional company in my life.
Hawaiian Vacations has been zero help.
Soon the tickets will expire, as will my writing about what I’ve been going through with Hawaiian Vacations. I’ll publish the website, forget the password, let it stay up for five years as I promised, and get on with my life.
So what do you think happened to these travel vouchers within Hawaiian Vacations? Do you think there were three empty seats on one of these charters last year? Who actually got my dead mother’s money? Do you think Hawaiian Vacation’s accountants can answer that? It seems like the books would be out of balance unless there’s a column for “Pure Profit from dead mother’s unrefunded gift.”
But mostly - how do you feel about the people who kept this money?
Would you like to tell them?
Before you do - here’s some hard-won advice that I’ll pass on – Start at the top! That’s right, even if nobody in the office is willing to give you a name or even admit that there is someone at the top, start there anyway. I had thought that “supervisor” was as far as you could go, at least that’s what I was finding by using the telephone, reading the website and visiting the office – boy was I wrong! Think of all the time I spent being told “no” by “reservationists” and “supervisors”! I could have been told “no” by someone at the top!
So let them know what a good job Hawaiian Vacations has done enforcing their policy and maybe give them some ideas about how to spend my dead mother’s money. I’m sure they’ll enjoy hearing from you.
I will be more than happy to correct any inaccuracies on this website. Feel free to email me if you have any insight. However, you may find it helpful to know that I tape-recorded the last and infinitely baffling conversation with Dave Karp AND my first visit over at Hawaiian Vacations that caused this website. I used a handy little recorder and it fits right in my shirt pocket. I am therefore pretty sure about the accuracy of what I write. And because I am a professional audio engineer, you can rightly imagine the excellent and clear recording quality.
(If you have any questions about the legality of recording a conversation, please see Alaska Statute § 42.20.310.)
If anyone is embarassed by what they did or said, that's too bad. I'm just following my own policies.
Kurt Riemann
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